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Post by mylikeit on Jan 19, 2005 0:05:02 GMT -5
I 100% agree with the idea that these are foods to enjoy in moderation and by counting the points. I have realized this week that I'm basically having bread at a family dinner once a week, and that's it. I don't miss it, I don't want more. If I do, I'll eat it and count points, but I don't want it. There are brownies (for other family members) sitting in my kitchen right now and they don't even look like food to me. I just don't want them. If I started back with the "Core baked goods," I would probably end up with the bread monkey on my back. I would rather have my peace of mind, and my oatmeal in a bowl.
But I am grateful to those who are creating the recipes and sharing them. For some of us, using these foods may be a transition to a deeper Core eating practice. Or they may be non-triggering foods for some of us (who can continue to eat them without a problem). I'm not sure if WW will stick with the Core+Core=Core thing as to baked goods, but in any case the recipes may have a place in a healthy Core eating program. So thank you to the creative bakers/cooks.
I am especially grateful for this wonderful Core community.
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Post by GracieJones on Jan 19, 2005 0:29:22 GMT -5
Oh, I am SO glad to have found you guys. Such smart, practical people hang out here.
~ Gracie
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Post by saf2004 on Jan 19, 2005 12:45:32 GMT -5
Well, I'm reluctant to post this here - even waited all night to post anything and think about what I wanted to say, but I do feel that some support for us bakers needs to be voiced. So I'm just going to say this once that I, personally, see nothing wrong with baking SOME of the recipes that have been posted. I realize that many of you don't want to do that for yourselves, and I respect that, but I have found the baked oatmeal and oatmeal pucks to be great tools with Core, where being hungry on the run would otherwise lead to worse choices than the 1/4 cup oatmeal and 1/8 an egg that the serving I eat provides. And, if any of you have tried the oatmeal, you'll know that it really isn't comparable to a muffin or other "pre-core" trigger food - it's just a portable way to eat seasoned oatmeal (at least for me).
I totally agree with the logic behind what you all said, and why you make your choices. Definitely, for this to succeed for life, the behavior and mindset changes need to occur, and using baked oatmeal in place of muffins/croissants/bread doesn't do that. I just personally feel that a rigid "I will never bake unless it's the good stuff that I count points for" stance does not necessarily solve the problem (just avoids it), nor does it recognize the fact that some of us now use these baked goods in new ways. The baked oatmeal isn't filling the place that cake used to occupy for me - for me, it's actually what I grab on the 2 nights a week where I'm home from work for 2 minutes before I'm off to a yoga class or club meeting (at a restaurant with absolutely NO core choices). Both nights, I end up not getting a chance to eat dinner until at least 8:30pm, so I find this to be a good snack-on-the-run, that fills me up and gives me the fuel I need before I can get something more substantial. I've found, for that meeting at the restaurant especially, that this allows me to feel satisfied enough to avoid eating the french fries/sandwiches/desserts that the restaurant serves. I've tried other snacks on the go, and am still tempted when I'm at the meeting, but eating this feels like enough of a meal to me that I'm not tempted by the other stuff there, nor do I feel deprived when I eat it.
Now, I do carefully consider the recipes before I make them, and there have been many (such as the bread pudding one, or any that grind up oats before making) that I will not make. But, I feel that, if 1 serving size of the finished product does not end up having more ingredients in it than I would want to eat at one sitting, and I can see that I would not be tempted to eat it mindlessly/more than 1 serving at a time, I do happily bake things.
Lastly, I just wanted to thank Kippy for recognizing that there are those of us who are able to do this, and not completly removing those threads from the board. I just wanted to post this because I think that there are more like me out there, and I think that some of the wording of this and the other threads could lead people who bake to feel badly about themselves. I just wanted them to know that there are other, successful core-ers who are losing with baking when done mindfully (actually, now that I think about it, the weeks I haven't lost have all been ones where I haven't had the baked goods - when I have had them at hand, i've lost, so it really does help me!).
****ducking and running now****
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Post by lyndam52 on Jan 19, 2005 13:08:47 GMT -5
The thing that makes the baked goods not core for me is that core foods can be eaten to satisfaction - and none of these add-ons to my eating plan would I ever consider eating in unlimited quantities to satisfaction. But, yes they can be helpful in our lives, especially when our other option is worse! That still doesn't make them core.
I don't really 'count' any of the WPAs I eat, just keep track in my head. I know that as long as 90-95% of my food is core, I will continue to be healthy and control my weight. So I will continue to sort of count everything that isn't core, so that I don't lose focus.
Just my 2 cents, Lynda
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Post by Rita on Jan 19, 2005 13:14:45 GMT -5
Saf - nobody is implying that those baked goods recipes should not be utilized if needed to stay OP. What we are trying to emphasize is that they should be counted into your WPA's rather than just considered a Core food. The definition of a core food is one that can be eaten until satisfied without having to worry about it (with the exception of the few limited items). These items do not fall under that definition.
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Post by saf2004 on Jan 19, 2005 13:24:57 GMT -5
The definition of a core food is one that can be eaten until satisfied without having to worry about it (with the exception of the few limited items). These items do not fall under that definition. By whose standards? I do eat the baked oatmeal until satisfied - and it helps me be satisfied much more than grabbing a chunk of meat or some fruits/veggies (the only other really portable things I can think of now) would. Again, have you ever tried the baked oatmeal? It's not AT ALL equivalent to a tray of brownies - much more so to a bowl of oatmeal that doesn't need a spoon to be eaten. Yes, put a tray of brownies in front of me and tell me to eat, and I will eat the whole thing until long passed satisfied. The same does not happen with the baked oatmeal - any more than it would with a big bowl of oatmeal or a lean ham or any of a number of other core foods. I really don't see why that should be using my WPA's to eat it. Now, I will say that before Core, I could eat ANYTHING - core food or not - without stopping. Check out the Mind over platter forum and I know I'm not the only one with this problem. So, yes, the baked oatmeal then, too, would be likely to cause problems for me - as would couscous, brown rice, chili, ham, sweet potatoes, etc.... But, now that the whole plan teaches me to stop and really analyze what i'm feeling/satisfaction levels, if I do that with these foods, I'm just as likely to keep them in control (or not as the case may be) as any other core ones. Again, maybe you aren't and I respect that. But please don't tell me I have to count this to my WPA's when it's made from all core foods and eaten to within my comfort levels.
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Post by saf2004 on Jan 19, 2005 13:37:23 GMT -5
I just wanted to point out again, that I fear the effect some of these posts will have on people who are using these baked goods as a tool, and made to feel that they're doing something wrong. The only reason I spoke up was because I don't want someone to feel that they have to stop using them, then get discouraged and end up falling off the wagon completly.
It's really not something I want to debate, because I know (and have seen) that the debate can go on forever. I don't personally need anyone's validation to do things the way I have - I've seen these arguments before and do what I do and am losing better than ever before, so that's all the validation I need.
I think what I'm asking, though, is that we all watch our tone in these posts. It's one thing to say that "for me, xyz is what I think needs to be done" and another to say that "everyone needs to do xyz because it's what works". Those words lead to a lot of other, less helpful things, and since this program is different depending on our personal issues/needs/feelings/interpretations, etc...., I'd just like to see less judgement surrounding all of our feelings in this area. Ok, now I'm done for good. Thanks for listening....
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Post by Kippy on Jan 19, 2005 13:38:44 GMT -5
Saffie, no need to run. Yours is the first cogent, well thought out post I have personally seen on the pro-baking side and you make some very good points in it.
I think the critical word you used was mindful.
There are too many folks who will read something posted here or on WPA and just go with it without thinking it through. "But they said it was Core ...." forgetting the fact that they ate a whole pan of whatever it was in 24 hours.
So now this thread has provided plenty of "food for thought". And I hope people do read it, both pro and con, and think about it. I know some people think I'm a Core "Nazi" (with apologies to anybody who finds the use of this term inappropriate) and I do try to be, for me. That's how I can make it successful.
All I ask is that everybody think before baking. If they can do it like you do, God bless them and pass them the baked oatmeal.
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Post by akansan on Jan 19, 2005 14:48:57 GMT -5
Saf, the baked oatmeal specifically is a grey area for me. My biggest Core-related complaint with it is it uses less liquid than a regular bowl of oatmeal, thereby changing its energy density. That's my same (only stronger) complaint for "Core" oatmeal pancakes. Other than that, I understand why someone would choose the baked oatmeal for a "convenience" food. It's firm oatmeal in a different form.
It's the banana breads, the muffins, the actual baked good replacements that I find troubling, personally. Those are the foods that I know would create a problem for me, so those are the foods I will not cook unless I use WPAs for them. Getting "free" versions of them -- versions I can technically eat until satisfied on -- doesn't help me in the long run.
But you are right. Every person is different. If you can bake, eat one slice of Core cornbread, and stop there, you have more willpower or different temptations then I do. For me, it's those temptations that keep baking to pointed versions.
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alexntanz
Newbie
Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent!
Posts: 22
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Post by alexntanz on Jan 19, 2005 15:27:33 GMT -5
Saf - I'm really glad you posted your thoughts about the baked oatmeal. I have made the recipe and it is nothing like a sweet baked good treat. It is definately more like a very firm bowl of spiced oatmeal. I can only say that I am able to eat it in small portions and only to satisfaction. I can't speak for others, but I count this as a Core breakfast.
Everyone has different foods that trigger overeating. I for one can not eat couscous, potatoes, or brown rice only until satisfied. I consistently over eat these foods so I do not eat them at all even though they are Core.
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Post by LoserQMelissa on Jan 19, 2005 15:48:27 GMT -5
Again, maybe you aren't and I respect that. But please don't tell me I have to count this to my WPA's when it's made from all core foods and eaten to within my comfort levels. I don't bake because I don't feel the need to. However, I am always quick to point out that WW has changed their stance back to the original Core+Core=Core.
I think I understand where you are coming from. I get frustrated when people say, "If I knew how to eat until satisfied, I wouldn't need WW." Well, are they eating whole grains, lean meat, and plenty of vegetables? Are they getting in their dairy, water, vitamin and oil. I find it REALLY hard to overeat on Core, so I assume those people with a fear of overeating don't realize what Core foods can do for them.
You are saying baked oatmeal, for example, isn't something you would overeat like brownies the same way I say whole wheat pasta with a salad and glass of milk isn't something I could mass consume like regular old spaghetti and garlic bread. Or am I way off?
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Post by triciak on Jan 19, 2005 16:17:24 GMT -5
I have tried the baked oatmeal and believe me - it is NOT a dessert replacment for me. I only tried it once and would probably only prepare it again for a situation where I needed something heavy to hold me on the run. Fruit just doesn't hold me and my blood sugar will go crazy. Even cheese alone doesn't do the trick.
Like Saf - I do consider it Core. Again, like Saf - it isn't a trigger food for me like some Core foods are. As far as it not having as much liquid - I don't really think that is part of the equation as I've been known to eat my oatmeal w/o added liquid on those really cold mornings when I needed "substance" before braving the outside.
I also agree that people will take things and run with them but I'm not sure all the clarification in the world will make a difference for them. If they continue to try to "tweak" the program to make it fit old eating habits - it doesn't matter what any of us say.
That is just my own humble opinion which is worth about as much as a grain of salt in the scheme of things. My other humble opinion is that Core is the best food plan I've ever attemped to live on. I've been the most successful in my endeavors than any other plan (so far - and believe me - it will never be over).
My biggest problem today is the same one I've had all along ---ME! That is why I truly appreciate everyone feeling free to say what they really feel here. It is so different from the WW Boards where you are pretty much made to feel bad if you disagree with something. Not so here - so once again - Thank you Kippy.
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Post by SmallTownGurl on Jan 19, 2005 16:21:51 GMT -5
Personally I am not over-thinking the baking issue. I like the baked oatmeal. I bake & eat about 4 servings every two weeks. I keep individual servings frozen so I'm not tempted to abuse it. And I'm regularly losing weight at just the WW recommended rate of 1.5 lbs per week, so it doesn't seem to be hurting my efforts. On the other hand, I have no use for ff/sf pudding. A. It's really yucky and B. even THOUGH it's really yucky, I lose control and eat 4 servings at a time. I don't see this endless debate on the pudding but for me, it's much more problematic. I think we have to individually learn our weak areas and work within that and the Core guidelines, but sheesh...
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Post by laura281 on Jan 19, 2005 16:30:12 GMT -5
Actually, I think the liquid is a huge factor. WW tells us to eat cold cereals with milk or yogurt, and one of the main reasons is that the water volume in the milk LOWERS the energy density. Core is all about foods with low energy density. WW didn't feel the need to stipulate that oats should be eaten with milk because 99% of the time people eat them cooked in water or milk... people don't regularly eat dry oats. This is my problem with the baked oats... not as much liquid as a bowl of oatmeal. I won't argue with anyone as to whether it's Core or not because my leader informed us in December that Core+Core=Core. However, I don't think WW planned on baked goods being Core in the beginning. They wanted Core to be a simple program and didn't anticipate the lengths to which people would go in order to eat baked goods. They got caught having to make rulings on these questions as they popped up, and the original simple Core plan all of a sudden was getting complicated. They caved and said C+C=C because they wanted the plan to remain simple.
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Post by saf2004 on Jan 19, 2005 16:39:38 GMT -5
You are saying baked oatmeal, for example, isn't something you would overeat like brownies the same way I say whole wheat pasta with a salad and glass of milk isn't something I could mass consume like regular old spaghetti and garlic bread. Or am I way off? That's exactly it!!! Glad to hear I'm not the only one who sees this - was beginning to feel that I was.
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