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Post by katelight on Apr 12, 2006 19:35:26 GMT -5
I'm so glad you felt you could share your thoughts and concerns here. You bring up very valid points. I totally agree that women of size are discriminated against. Being an activist means you believe strongly in your issue. It doesn't mean you necessarily have to fit the discription. You know your motivation behind losing weight. Health is a tremendous motivator. For me 245 was unhealthy. I have a size 4 friend who is very unhealthy. By the same token, I also have other friends who are women of size and are very healthy and fit. The size 4 is percieved as healthy and the women of size are percieved unhealthy. I don't have an answer to your inner conflict, but you will come to terms and figure it all out for yourself. Just be confident in your decision and share that confidence with others. I know I couldn't(wouldn't) lose the weight until I became confident in who I was and what I looked like at 245. Take care Katie
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Post by vita77 on Apr 12, 2006 19:52:01 GMT -5
Ah, Night...this is a subject I've thought about a lot. If you can't discuss it openly here, then where? You're not a traitor. People can credibly advocate for gay rights - at least on some level - without ever identifying themselves as gay, or ever experiencing the impact of the prejudice personally. And you'll retain the credibility of someone who has experienced sizism first-hand, regardless of whether your size changes. People are assuming that your weight loss is a reason to congratulate you, because they see you heading in the direction of conventional social beauty. If you were "conventionally thin," and then dropped enough weight to suggest an eating disorder, they'd keep quiet. You're happy about your weight loss because, like it or not, you're a member of a society that values thinness. Unfortunately, we all have unconscious bias. For a very powerful demonstration of this, look at the Weight IAT on Harvard's Implicit Association Test site. implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/index.jspI'll warn you up front that it's upsetting to take the tests. I found out that I'm not as open-minded as I thought I was, to the point of demonstrating a clear bias against groups of which I myself am a member. Does that make me a traitor? I think it just makes me human - a product of my society. I can still make conscious choices that flout the bias. Anyway, good luck, and hang in there.
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Post by xenagoddess on Apr 12, 2006 20:07:31 GMT -5
"Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for Thin People compared to Fat People."
This is how my results came back. I am not surprised. Is this the study that was talked about in "Blink"?
Ok I did another one.
"Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for Straight People compared to Gay People."
-Now that is just frusterating...since I am gay!
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Post by nightsinge on Apr 13, 2006 14:26:09 GMT -5
Wow. Wow, wow, wow. What an outpouring of support and encouragement. Thank you all for taking the time to really hear me and respond--it means so much.
Sometimes in the WW meetings I feel like we are focused on tools and simplistic slogans, etc. That's ok, but I sense that we're not really supposed to talk about the psychological aspects of learning to live a more healthful life.
But they're very real, no? I don't know how someone can be as overweight as I am without those issues coming up. Thanks for welcoming me to talk about them here.
Vita: I think I've done a few of these before. I was one of a tiny percent to have a preference for Black people over white and Old people over young. I had to take the Arabic/Muslim test because it's a huge issue for me. Not surprised to find that I have a preference toward Arabs (but I am part Lebanese). Now off to take the weight and orientation ones.
Thank you for reminding me that I am not a traitor--AND for understanding my feelings.
everyone
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Post by nightsinge on Apr 13, 2006 14:44:31 GMT -5
OK, I'm a freak.
"Your data suggest a moderate automatic preference for Fat People compared to Thin People." The odd thing is that my preference for fat over thin was stronger than my preference for Arab/Muslim over others.
"Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between Gay People and Straight People." Bizzare.**** Now back to my food journal****Yesterday I hit all the GHG 10. I've written in extra checkmarks for protein and multi vitamins and that seems to help. Only exercise was a 30 minute video though. I can do better.
At karaoke last night--well, you know bar food. I had 1/2 of someone's veggie burger patty and not a single damn sweet potato french fry. Of course I had to eat when I came home even though it might have been pyschological. ODing on apples and ff cheese beats ODing on apple pie and cheesy poofs.
And my 10% reward will come in the form of a new haircut and color...AND new walking shoes. Who would have thought I'd see good tennis shoes as a bloody reward--ever?
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Post by kally on Apr 13, 2006 16:02:36 GMT -5
good ideas for the rewards. Go for it.
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Post by slimcris on Apr 13, 2006 20:53:04 GMT -5
I have to change my signature color for your journal or people will think I'm you when they read!! just wanted to pop in and say HI! since you are always popping in on me!
And rewards are fun. I usually end up getting too excited about the reward to wait for the loss. Then I go and buy it, and I have my reward before I've earned it. So that makes them presents, and not rewards. But I'm always attracted to the theory ...
Going to go take some of those tests. I'm just wrapping up research on multicultural adaptability. We surveyed almost a hundred students with two different cultural competence evaluations, and scored them to see if they improved over the last three years in PT school. I've read so much literature and consider myself to be pretty open minded, so it will be interesting for me to take some surveys of myself!
I dont get the time to pop into other journals very often - but maybe that will change with my decreased TV time. So I'm not sure when I'll be in again, but have a great weekend!! ;D
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Post by kasha on Apr 16, 2006 7:46:26 GMT -5
The earlier discussion brings up something that happened here-south of France, this past week and brought up major conflict for me.
I needed some exercise clothes, so I went to the sports store across from where I work and found that NOTHING in the shop fit. I wear a US size 16. Nothing at all. Even what they considered the XXL, which must have been a US 12 at most. I still can't quite figure this out. Dh knew I needed some new clothes, mentioned I should go there, so I told him I already did, and why I wouldn't be going back. We decided to go to the really big sports store outside of town and I chose the largest sizes of everything they had, and they were too large, so I knew, with some trail and error, I could find somehting that fit. I did finally, marked French size XXL, American size 12. Great, huh?
Now, I admit that, while being angry that a sports store could start their clothes at such small sizes, I really wished I could get into them. No way I can. I would be happy to be a size 12 again, and even that probably won't get me fitting into anything in the first store. Really a bummer. I want to be thin, but I hardly think I, or anyone my size, or larger, deserves to be cut out from even one thing that fits at a typical store. If I ever get to 'thinner' again, I'm not going to be looking at larger people thinking mean things. Of course, this is France, home of the size 4-6, and I'm sure that it wouldn't be quite so dramatic in the US. Where the average woman must be a 12. 12 is considered plus size here.
I was pointing out to Dh, who didn't know me at the time, that, at what I consider to have been my personal best, I exactly matched Marilyn Monroe's measurements, at one of her thinner periods. Hardly what anyone would consider to be thin. Won't be enough to get me into a pair of shorts at that place either!
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Post by nightsinge on Apr 16, 2006 18:13:50 GMT -5
Thanks again everyone for your thoughtful responses.
Cris, I've done the same thing with rewards...just have to come up with new ones (and for me, non-material ones a little more often. Baths are good!)
Kasha, That's so sad. I suppose I understand from a business perspective; if they have fewer consumers of larger sizes they don't see it being worthwhile to carry them. But I can't believe that EVERY French woman is size 12 or less. I so understand that duality of frustration and envy that you talk about. I look at clothes on line sometimes just to pretend that I could buy them--I don't feel comfortable even LOOKING at skinny clothes in stores. Hmm, what does that say about my self esteem?
On to food and health.
I've been so good on the GHG 10. I'm really proud of myself. Though I found that today I've had a water rebellion. I just can't make myself drink a single glass. Anyone else ever get to that point? I've been tricking myself with decaf tea and low sodium diet soda.
And the PMS monster is haunting me. I've gone from being full and content on core to wanting to EAT MY WAY THROUGH THREE CITIES.
ARRRRRGH *waves big monster hands around*
I'm still on core, but I'm over-coring: eating more than usual. Is it psychological? Is it natural, hormonal fluctuations? Only time (and the scale) will tell...
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Post by krb on Apr 16, 2006 19:30:41 GMT -5
Hi Night! I, too get ravenous premenstrually. And rebellious. I find that excercise really helps. Hardcore excercise, the kind that makes you growl. Better 'n Prozac, I'm telling ya. I still eat more, but I keep it Core and don't worry too much about it. I find that if I try too hard to limit myself, I feel deprived and angry, and then I binge and bail. Sometimes a little leeway makes the difference between success and setback, for me anyway. Hang in there! Karen
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Post by katelight on Apr 17, 2006 7:31:27 GMT -5
The PMS monster is a nasty bi*ch. I no longer have those hormonal fluctuations, but remember all too well the evil Katie that would surface once a month. My poor family, it's a wonder they survived it. HIHO Katie
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Post by sulee on Apr 17, 2006 13:56:18 GMT -5
Hi night,
I've been voraciously reading your journal and all the stuff about fat-ism, values, etc. etc. That is SUCH a slippery slope. I will take some of those tests soon myself as i'm totally curious to see where my prejudices are hiding...me being a very liberal, pc kind of girl...at least on the surface.
I have had some interesting experiences being, what i dispargingly refer to myself, the 'world's fattest dancer'. I am totally judgemental and critical of my body, my curves and ripples. I can barely stand to see myself in the mirror, but become ouraged and incensed when i get any inkling that someone is being dismissive of my ability, artistry, strength or stamina based on how i look. I remember once taking a pilates training workshop where i was CLEARLY the most experienced and qualified person there and having the teacher IGNORE my comments and observations because, in my view, i didn't LOOK like i could know anything. I finally stopped going because my anger (and yes, pain) was impeding my ability to get anything from the course.
But still i can see the looks when i walk into a new class--just came from a regional dance festival so had lots of opportunities to teach and take classes for and from people I didn't know. There are the looks. Then I have to prove myself. UGH. I mean for pete's sake (whoever pete is...) I need to lose 30 pounds. but in the dancer's world, where some might suggest i need to lose 50 pounds so i can be the requisite 20 pounds underweight, I'm enormous.
So part of me, the 2 year old brat with a potty mouth, says "f-- them!" and has an ice cream. and then i go home and look at my stomach and feel sad. so nobody wins.
Lots of rambling here to say I understand what you are saying about ambivalence and acceptance. But with your huge kind heart, that reads clear and true on these threads, i know you will find ways to be true to yourself and to your values and make it all fit together. Katie was right on when she said that you don't need to BE what you are striving to give equality...whether it has to do with size, color, love partner, religion or amount of money in the bank, to name a few of my favorite targets for discrimination
And congratulations on all your great work, observing yourself and supporting everyone else.
sulee
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Post by nightsinge on Apr 17, 2006 17:16:51 GMT -5
Have I told you all lately how wonderful you are?
You are all wonderful.
I haven't met you, yet feel like I can be honest and open about my journey and all the thoughts, hopes and fears it inspires.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
And wouldn't it be great to all meet each other one day?
As to dancing, I feel that vibe. Even though Middle Eastern Dancing is supposed to be about all women, all ages, and all sizes, I don't see too many large women doing it in this college town. I do have a friend of similar size who often goes with me. That helps!
What kind of dancing do you do/teach, Sulee? I can't imagine that dancers would think you need to loose...oh wait, yes I can. Sigh. Good for you for showing the community that all women can be graceful and beautiful dancers. I bet more than one woman of size has seen you and been grateful.
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NEW ISSUE: Chicago
I'm freaking out. (you know, I'm really more upbeat than this journal sounds, honest!).
My mother, my best friend, my DP and I are all going to be there this weekend. We are all varying shades of large, and we all like to eat. I'm the only vegetarian (strike one) and I'm going to try to stay core as much as possible (strike two).
My mother and I have entwined food issues going waaaay back (as I'm sure many of us do). I have not told her about WW or my loss because... well, it's complicated, but it kind of feeds into this support/envy/sisterhood/competitive thing mom and I have going.
But she saw a recent photo of me and suspects. She keeps asking me things like "what size pants are you wearing these days?" She's sneaky, my mom.
OTOH, she might be my biggest ally in Chicago. She tries to eat healthfully and will probably join me in doing so... But she will also trigger me--she's SO food-obsessed.
I'm trying to focus on the fun we will have and the joy we will all share in being together. I'm trying to NOT focus on food, though all of us have a pattern of socializing around food that is entrenched.
I've found three restaurants that serve healthful vegetarian food and will encourage us to go there (and make as positive choices as I can the rest of the time, including the gospel brunch!).
Mostly, I don't want core or my lifestyle or my concern about it to overshadow having a wonderful time with the people I love.
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Post by nightsinge on Apr 18, 2006 16:32:40 GMT -5
Well 1.2 lbs isn't so bad...but it adds to my total and that means I've "given away" 30 altogether. Yay!
I'm feeling better about Chicago. I know I'll have DPs support and she's lived with a core-ista for two months now so she knows what foods to encourage and discourage. I am going to be "light core" on my trip which to me means to try and get core, vegetarian food and not worry TOO much how much oil it was cooked in. If the only thing on the menu is fettucini alfredo, I'll just scrape off most of the sauce. On my actual birthday next Tuesday I'll give myself a break--but I'm eating veg sushi so still healthful.
AND my mom wants to try the boxing gym in the hotel. It's $15 per person, and she even said she'd pay for it. How much fun will it be to try punching bags with my mom? DP said she'd take me for city walks when everyone else was tired out. That's good enough for me.
Now I must focus and get my school work done so I can really enjoy it. Cheers!
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Post by kasha on Apr 20, 2006 5:17:51 GMT -5
I'm from Chicago, you'll be fine finding things to eat, just do your best and it will be fine. I envy you, it is a great time of the year for a trip, and last year, when I was back, I don't think the city ever looked cleaner or prettier.
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